There's some concern that players who made Legend as a dual class now have an unfair advantage over anyone who Legends as one of the new classes because they have all of the skills that they learned which includes ones no longer available to them.

So in the interest of fairness, would people accept the removal of skills they cannot get now, in exchange for practices to use towards their new skills? If you do it right, you can get Adept in 2 practices, but I'll lean towards generous and offer 2.5 (rounded up if you're losing an odd number of skills) for each skill we have to remove. Alternately, players can choose a new class and get levelled up to their original level in that new class. If new class is the chosen option (or a chosen option), Alchemists would be allowed to switch also.

Choose from below.

#OptionCount
1 Trade old skills for practices 6
2 No changes to old dual classes 6
3 Players get new class same levels 2
4 Send note to Drey with input 0
5 New class or reimburse, player choice 5
6 Pwipe was a joke; revote please 1
Votes cast: 20

Comments: Post New Refresh Comments

Skan Post Reply
Kheldar, I have to say this, Would I waste my time making a weak, crappy character? I dont want to waste my time anyway.

      Kheldar Post Reply
      Yes, I know. You are acting in YOUR own best interest. The problem is, there are a whole lot more players than just Skan that we have to consider. Think about it.

            Skan Post Reply
            thats true, but I looked at the poll, voted and voiced my opinion, nobody has to agree with it, my opinion generally sucks anyway I noticed.

Kheldar Post Reply
A general comment for the morts to think about: Why should we imms even bother to try to let you have a say in things if your comments are not based on 1) how to make the game more balanced, or 2) how to make the game fun for everyone, but instead are based on "I think you should do X so that I can be more powerful"?

      Kheldar Post Reply
      Don't take this comment as much more than a pointed comment toward Skan.

Skan Post Reply
I voted no, just because we, the old people have put time and effort into our current characters. I decided the classes I picked because of the skills in those multiclasses, my new class has none of my old skills and thats just what I think.

      Skan Post Reply
      I also think, by Slist, paladins dont get much from either class, other than sanctuary, which you can find anyway.

            skan Post Reply
            oops, paladins dont even get sanc

            Skan Post Reply
            I also have to say, im not a legend, but I have carefully planned my character to be the best I think I could be. I picked both of my classes with intent on having every skill that I practiced. I didnt practice them all, I based my character around the 2 classes, and Paladins dont get a single skill I planned to use when I made my character. And im not saying this for just paladins, im saying it for all the multiclasses

tessir Post Reply
Alot of people will loose alot that they picked the classes for and now that they've put all those hours and stuff. I for one think balancing the classes wouldnt be bad and to do that the old classes would be too powerfull, But Clerica's idea of letting us select a new class as reimbursement would be a very nice idea because then we can choose the Class WE want to play, i for one liked being a war/thief, but a merc just isnt what i want, not to bash ya'lls ideas on mercs, ifnt i gonna loose all the skills that are the reason why tessir's a war/thief i would like to have the chance to choose another of the new classes that is more appealing to me, ok my two cents.

mungojerrie Post Reply
i'm for the current status quo (so I voted "No", correct way to vote?). you say a "new" player hasn't a chance against an "old" one.. but in truth.. the new players won't catch up to the old for a while once kits are put in and the old start leveling again.. (pk tolerance is there and can protect them.) and with kits things should balance out in the long run as we use less of our old skills and more of our new.. so why not just throw us this small bone of keeping our skills?

Clerica Post Reply
If you are going to have to take away old skills in order to balance the game, give your legends a chance to pick a new class and remort. By slist, Gypsies encompass the worst of thief and cleric, and I have absolutely no reason to play one. Of course, thats just my opinion -- but what it comes down to, is that this is not what I signed up for (that includes factoring in kits). Give legends a chance to "remort" as they see their character.

      Kheldar Post Reply
      Ok, I will admit that since I didn't finish a couple of the planned skills for Gypsies, they are kind of weak...which is a very valid point. I do appreciate that in this post, you did offer a valid, reasonable alternative...and we'll discuss offering class-changes on a case-by-case basis once we decide how to properly balance the previous dual class characters.

mungojerrie Post Reply
i'm for the current status quo (so I voted "No", correct way to vote?). you say a "new" player hasn't a chance against an "old" one.. but in truth.. the new players won't catch up to the old for a while once kits are put in and the old start leveling again.. (pk tolerance is there and can protect them.) and with kits things should balance out in the long run as we use less of our old skills and more of our new.. so why not just throw us this small bone of keeping our skills?

      Kheldar Post Reply
      Because having third attack, enhanced damage, etc. are not a small bone for a Paladin, Templar, or Mercenary, for instance.

Clerica Post Reply
Clearly, in choosing a dual class, and then becoming a Legend, the player had in mind a very *specific* idea as to what they wanted their character to be like. From leveling to the enchantment of equipment, the power of most high levels is the result of fine-tuning and customization. As the staff benefits from having a group of high level players that can instantly get started in essentially playtesting a new version of high level UD, asking to keep old skills is a small fringe benefit for what will be the last of the "old players."

      Kheldar Post Reply
      I think where I particularly disagree with this sentiment is the assertion that each current legend is the result of careful planning and stylistic preference....I think most people chose race/class/eq/etc. based on what was most powerful at the time, and spent most of their time min/maxing. Otherwise, why don't we see more mages and ascetics? I can't believe NO ONE wants to play them! It MUST be that people just choose what is the most powerful...therefore, I don't feel bad in removing that aspect of their playing.

            Clerica Post Reply
            "It MUST be that people just choose what is the most powerful...therefore, I don't feel bad in removing that aspect of their playing." Duh? Why would anyone want to play anything the less than the best the game and they themselves have to offer? It MUST be that the immortal staff has not fairly balanced the classes, and people then choose what is the most powerful. Why people do what they do can be spun any a number of ways. The fact remains that legends, particularly dual-classed legends, represent a specific intent on part of the player. I wanted every skill I've practiced, and others were left out. I am customized and maximized, and if you completely change the criteria upon which all of those decisions were based, you, at the very least, owe those affected practices so that they may be relative to where they were before.

                  Drey Post Reply
                  And we said we were going to offer reimbursement. You seem to be the second player who thought we were going to just rip them away and give nothing in return.

                  Kheldar Post Reply
                  So does that mean you're voting yes to practice reimbursement, that you have a better idea, or that you're just complaining?

                        Clerica Post Reply
                        1. Take away the old skills of Legends.
2. Legends have one week to submit in e-mail requested class change. Class is changed, practices are given (it would be easy for staff members to make an alias to do this). In return for the practices, the Legends, essentially playtesters, will diligently report any problems/suggestions to the new classes, bettering the MUD for new players.
3. Legends accept their fates in the new single-class world having chosen it themselves, which mitigates any future "whining."

      Drey Post Reply
      Last of the old players, my ass. :p With the exception of you, most Legends have 2-3 total alts. There's a veritable army of you!

In any case, we're going to go with the majority consent on this (and I'll be deducting votes from alts, so don't bother). Some folks think it's an issue, other's don't. Let's see how the mob feels.

      Kheldar Post Reply
      The thing that makes it not a "small benefit" is that if a new character levels up a Paladin to level 50, in the best way possible, they won't stand a chance against the old "honour guard" of old players....I'm all about giving something for your hard work and dedication, but I'm MORE about balancing the game...suggestions?

            Clerica Post Reply
            If they can't stand a chance against the old honor guard, which means they would suck (think new player vs. honor guard in a pk fight), will the game be adjusted accordingly? Maybe balancing would be more fun for everyone if there was a clear rationale to play every class, and I'm not sure there is. Some are more powerful, but the game doesn't get any more fun by weakening the powerful -- there will still be little reason to experiment with another class that had to dick over all the others just to have a chance.

                  Kheldar Post Reply
                  I think you're missing the point, which is that we are trying to balance the classes against each other...we know we can do a better job at this, so why don't you give us some god damned constructive ideas instead of just whining?

                        Drey Post Reply
                        Her class didn't come with the Constructive Criticism skill, only the Whining skill. It's not her fault really.

                              Clerica Post Reply
                              I didn't think I was whining, I think I was pointing out some critical flaws in this new system. I didn't think this was the forum to present new ideas, since the question was "Skills: Keep Them or Take Them Away," and I was focusing everything I said about keeping them. It is ironic, however, that if my class didn't come with Constructive Criticism, it would be your fault for not having programmed it.

                                    Drey Post Reply
                                    OK, my gripe is that some folks are responding to the TITLE of the poll and not the actual content of the poll. I feel I have a right to bitch when I have multiple people complain that we're going to take away skills with no recompense when, if the damn poll had been read, it was very clearly stated that their would be pracs give in exchange for the skills taken away. Since you were the latest person seeming to make that mistake, I got testy.

            Clerica Post Reply
            If they can't stand a chance against the old honor guard, which means they would suck (think new player vs. honor guard in a pk fight), will the game be adjusted accordingly? Maybe balancing would be more fun for everyone if there was a clear rationale to play every class, and I'm not sure there is. Some are more powerful, but the game doesn't get any more fun by weakening the powerful -- there will still be little reason to experiment with another class that had to dick over all the others just to have a chance.